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34 Comments:
How can you have east over north? East has one loss. North was way more impressive against jackson than southern. Your poll is a joke.
I can understand most of the positioning, however:
Howell (#4) moves UP after beating a very very weak TRS team?
Wall (#7), Pt. Boro (#8), and TR North (#9) move DOWN after wins?
RBC (#2) maintains their ranking, despite not playing.
Long Branch should have moved to #2, with RBC to #3, Southern #4, Howell #5, and TRN should have maintained the 8 spot.
Mr. Anonymous, we asked everyone to post a poll and explain their reasoning for a poll. Let's see your poll, and then I will comment.
ok Mr. faulk. 1. midd south 2. LB 3. howell 4. rbc 5. Pt. Boro 6. Tr north 7. southern 8. east 9. Wall 10. holmdel. East lost to southern, who was not ranked. Southern and north have both played jax and noth beat them good, while southern struggled to beat them.
Steve,
This poll used to be something of a tradition for the teams to strive for and be proud of if they made the AP Top 10. However, I think your inexperience as a writer for a broad audience has shown in your poll being extremely narrow sighted and amateurish. Ask the coaches and players around the Shore- they all think it's a sham even the teams that are in it. It's nothing to be proud of - where's Joey Z when you need him?
Why did the Barnaget/Holmdel game get more coverage in Saturday's Press then the Southern/TRE game that featured two ubdefeated Group 4 schools? Southern deserves more respect from your paper.
I have to agree, it seems your poll gets worse and worse each week starting from your preseason choices, and at this point all of your credibility is lost. Do you feel Holmdel could defeat Brick, Brick Memorial, or Lacey?? Try looking at matchups. You see experienced football observers, and not those who have been in the stands their entire lives, don't just stare at stats. They also consider the manner in which those stats were attained. These are my thoughts of you "poll,"
1. MIDDLETOWN SOUTH 5-0: No argument, they need to be beaten first. Midd. South against TR North should be a good game.
2. RED BANK CATHOLIC 4-0: Go through a bye week and you move them up?? They beat Red Bank, Matawan, Monmouth, and I forget the other team but I guarentee that it was not a tough one. It goes to show you that stats mean more to you than matchups. No wonder Calvin Thompson kicked a last second field goal to score points. I got news for you, if the New York Jets played pop warner teams each week, they would amass almost 500 yards of offense too.
3. LONG BRANCH 4-0. Alright, they handled Brick Memorial, and have great speed. Undefeated, that means something.
4. HOWELL 5-0. Score 24 on South and you move up a rank?? If that is true Toms River North should be #1 in the country...wait a minute you don't agree with passing late in the game so you keep then down. Yeah, that makes sense.
5. SOUTHERN 4-0. Not ranked to 5th...you screwed up somewhere not ranking them before. One of the toughest teams in the preseason. Maybe you should have ranked them. They played great defense and forced East to pass...which they can't do. I guess Stanford should be 5th in the country.
6. TOMS RIVER EAST 3-1. Now because you didn't have Southern ranked, and they beat East, wouldn't it make more sense to drop East lower. I believe Michigan was ranked before Appalachian State beat them. What happened the next week?
7. WALL 4-1. Now here is where you are inconsistent. Howell beat a bad team and they moved up, Wall beats a bad team and they move down. Because they played Midd. South tough. Either you don't know where to put them or South isn't that good.
8. POINT BORO 4-0. Only beating a winless Raritan team 20-7 and they are 8th in the Shore?? The eighth best team in the Shore would've blown them out. But undefeated should carry some weight here.
9. TOMS RIVER NORTH 5-0. Dominate Jackson 28-7, who only lost 6-0 to Southern. Holding the Jaguars offense to 100 total yards, and post over 300 yards all with their back-up tailback in. Howell beat TRS 24-0 and they move to 4th. North beat them 49-3. I guess if coach does something you don't like (through late in the game) you hold it against them in the polls. Undefeated should count more than it does.
10. HOLMDEL 4-0: Undefeated so, no comment here. Having no losses has to count for something...so should strength of schedule.
The NCAA also looks at strength of schedule. You might want to do the same...or maybe have someone more qualified make the polls. Like someone with a more in depth knowledge of high school football...playcalling, defense, etc. Anyway this is my reasoning for not agreeing with your poll, and from what I understand not too many other people do either.
Re: Southern. Holmdel did get a bigger picture but - if you check the copy.. the TR East -Southern write up was actually a little longer and both were on the front page, where few Ram teams have gone before.
Sometimes it also has to do with the type of picture submitted as to a layout of a page.
No lack of respect from what I see, or intended.
Also.. in my story in Friday's Press, one of my first mentions was on the Southern-TR East game.
Soooo.. Again - I don't see any lack of respect.
But.. keep winning and the headlines will get bigger. That's usually the way it works...
It also works the other way, too. Now that you're ranked No. 5 - if you lose - you also get headlines!
Also: regarding Southern-TR East. That Holmdel-Barngat game was a heck of a game and - like Southern vs. TR East - deserved every inch of copy it got...
im just looking foward too see what you gus will do when tr north beats middletown south.. will trnorth be falling to #17 in the poll then? XD
Mr. Anonymous, when you start attacking my credentials, I take offense. I have been in this business for over 20 years, most of them with the Ocean County Observer. I have been covering Shore Conference football for 20 years. I know the area and the landscape. As for Toms River North, the one time I saw them they scraped by with a 9-7 win over Brick. I was not overwhelmed with them that night. They easily could have lost that game. If they beat Middletown South, they will move way up in the poll. And everybody attacks RBC, well RBC has had a good program the last few years, and has done what they should have done so far clobber the teams they have without running the score up. You think I hold a grudge against Chip LaBarca, you couldn't be further from the truth. I have covered Chip LaBarca as an assistant coach at Toms River South for his dad, as a head coach in Lakewood, as an assistant coach at Toms River East and as a head coach at Toms River North, I have always gotten along with him, and I think he respects me. So know what you are talking about when you say I have a grudge against him. I don't agree with what he did against TR South, but that does not mean I don't respect his abilities as a coach. And wasn't it just a week ago, that most people were saying Toms River East should be No. 1. Southern just beat that team and deserved recognition for it.
As for the one who did a poll, not bad. Polls are subjective and opinions. They are not the be alls, end alls. Everything will come in the wash and polls have a way of straightening themselves out.
Of the many anonymouses that have posted I never mentioned anything about credentials. I hope you were directing that at that other guy. Yes Steve, you have been covering Shore Conference football for over 20 years, and you do it well. No one is arguing that...it's your poll. You need to look at personnel matchups, not just stats. For example, how do the offensive and defensive lines compare? Strengths, weaknesses, etc. How many ways can a team hurt opponents? How many players are capable of a big play. Flexbone offense versus a 4-4 cover 3 defense, etc. You mean to say that if you line up RBC against the likes of Southern, TRE, TRN, Brick, or Lacey, according to your poll, RBC would handle them? No disrespect to RBC but consider their schedule? Howell would get beat by the aforementioned teams as well as Wall and such unranked teams like Lacey, Brick Memorial, and Brick? Try comparing personnel, size, speed, and schedule. Put anyone at the top of the Constitution Division against Holmdel and tell me if they should be 10. Middletown South should be #1 they are the big dog and have been for years, so until they are knocked off, they deserve it. But you have teams that win and they move down, teams that lose and move up. Teams that during bye weeks move up. Stop the madness and actually compare other things rather than stats. If you threw a couple of high school teams on the Jets schedule and they could look like the best team in the NFL, because their stats would be enormous. Then when it comes time to face the Patriots, the truth comes out.
If TR N defeats Midd.South - No lower than 13th. I promise.
Under your theory, small schools like Holmdel and Point Boro should never be ranked, while big schools who lose games should be. I don't agree with that reasoning. That's what I call be narrow-minded. And polls are weekly based on weekly results, not based on personnel matchups. I don't think a college football poll is based on personnel matchups, either.
What big school lost a game?? Southern and TR North are undefeated...I understand Southern's ranking but how is TR North so low after destroying a Jackson team 28-7 when Southern narrowly defeated them 6-0?
Anonymous asked to place this comment under this topic
Anon said -
With respect to your insinuation that small schools should be ranked over larger schools because they defeat other small schools: there is a reason the State Playoffs differentiate among schools based on size--that reason being that smaller schools can not consistently defeat larger schools!! (this is not Hoosiers--this is football requiring a larger number of athletes). If a team in the Constitution Division upper half (even with 1 or more losses) played the likes of Holmdel, RBC, etc. they would likely emerge victorious. To believe otherwise smacks of a desire to sell more papers rather than intelligent football analys
Put it this way If RBC played Southern who would you pick? No way RBC deserves to be ranked higher.
No undefeated Group 1 or 2 school should be ranked higher than an undefeated Group 3 or 4 school unless they play some crossover games against tougher levels of competition.It's like comparing apples to oranges.
A 3-7 Southern team beat Barnegat's Group 1 playoff team 27-0 last season. Size does matter.
Sounds like there are a lot of readers who believe the poll is bogus...does anyone agree with it??
Where's the guy who writes this poll, he is taking a lot of heat. Why doesn't he defend it?
In '96 Gr. 1 Keansburg (11-0) was No. I in the Press final poll.
Manasquan (Gr. 2) (did you forget them?) has often been high in the top 10 and also No. 1 ..
Teams like Raritan, Matawan, Red Bank ..all CJ 2s, P. Boro (SJ 2) - I would have no problem seeing them No. 1 .
Re: Matawan, etc. Not this year of course.
Re: last year. And Barnegat had how many seniors playing??
RBC vs. Southern. Personally - I'd have to think about it.
My first instinct would be Southern - bigger school, American Div. etc. But it would not be a lock.
And can we have S. Reg. win more than one big game please?
They still have Brick, TR North and pesky Barnegat on their reg. season schedule.
This is no slap at S. Reg. Chuck is one of the classiest coaches I know and am happy for him (a fellow, Phillies, Eagles fan) that the Rams are having a good - maybe a break theough year.
But now can they keep it going?
Brick could beat them. I don't think Brick will, but could.
ok honestly southern's defense is one of the best in the shore. they shut down east who has scored 128 points the whole year. anyone who thinks southern wont beat brick, north, or barnegat is blind.
southern middletown south would be the game of a century. i think southern should be ranked 2nd in the shore. matter of fact southern could go to howell in the morning, beat them...go to rbc in the afternoon and beat them...and have long branch go to them and southern would beat them. all in one day!
For the record.. just so we're clear...I am picking S. Reg. over Brick (close game though) and will over Barnegat..
TRN?.....Hmmmm.
Mariners also have a very good defense with Zach Kane and Austin Kugler. Don't under rate it.
Not picking that one yet..
To obvious Southern fan. While I admire your enthusiasm .... I don't think the NJSIAA allows three games in one day.
Just a mere guess on my part.
For the sake of argument..I would - as we speak on Wednesday night.. take Midd South over Southern, and RBC and Howell would be toss ups - for now.
Of course, if Southern played all three in one day - I would have to at least pick the third team to beat the Rams..they might be a little tired by then don't you think??
Some observations:
Don't take the poll so seriously. I don't agree with Howell being rewarded with a higher ranking after beating a very bad TRS team. I think TRN & Wall losing ground in the poll after winning is a joke. BUT, they're just MY opinion, and I don't get paid to rank the teams.
"southern's defense is one of the best in the shore. they shut down east who has scored 128 points the whole year. anyone who thinks southern wont beat brick, north, or barnegat is blind."
Southern may very well win all 3 games you refer to, but none are automatic. Barnegat is a rivalry, Brick could/should have beaten TRN, and TRN does something that TRE can't do...pass.
Middletown South should beat TRN. HOWEVER, the game is in Toms River and even Raider & Indian fans will be wearing blue & gold for a few hours. Should be a great game.
Steve: Must have missed it. What did LaBarca do in the TRS game that you disagree with? From my perspective, he put his starters back into the game and threw a bomb for a TD AFTER TRS broke up North's shut-out with a field goal. If that's what you didn't like, I don't agree.
Southern is very capable of beating North, however something lingers. Southern struggled to score a touchdown and narrowly escaped with a 6-0 victory. North destroyed Jackson 28-7. I'd say right now it's a bit up in the air. It can be said that North should beat Southern as well.
IE: The person who asked what I disagreed about what happened in the North-South game, it was the TD pass with the score 42-3. Chip LaBarca Jr. and I have talked about it. He understands why I felt the way I did and I understand why he did what he did. I respect him as a coach and like him as a person and I think he respects me. As for the person who said polls don't mean that much, you got it exactly right. They are subjective opinions, nothing more and nothing less. No one poll is completely right and no one poll is completely wrong. And all polls have a way of working themselves out in the end.
Just to make it clear - Personal attacks or assumptions about coaches and or players will not be published.
If you want to e-mail me - fine..tonygsports@aol.com. Usually I will respond...
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